Ana Andjelic is a formidable thinker on brands, retail, digital and as a doctor of sociology, behavior. She also has an amazing understanding of the luxury market having spent years working in and studying luxury categories and consumers. She joins Adam today to talk about the confluence of digital, retail, luxury and brand when behavior is swirled together.

Transcript:

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Adam Pierno 0:29
Alright, welcome back to another episode of the strategy inside everything. I am excited we have a doctor on the show today with us. So I’m excited about that. But I think when you hear about who our guest is, you’ll be surprised. We’re not going to be talking about medicine, thank God because I would not be good at that conversation. Today, she’s been named to Forbes CMO list. She’s a doctor of sociology. She was the former chief brand officer Rebecca Minkoff. Ana angelic has joined us today. How are you?

Ana Andjelic 0:59
I’m good. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Adam Pierno 1:05
I’m really glad we were able to work out this time you were kind enough to make some time to join. Would you before we get into our topic? Would you give people a sense of a little bit of history about how you climbed up in your career and got to where you are?

Ana Andjelic 1:21
Oh, absolutely. And speaking of medicine, like you don’t need to really be like a doctor to be an expert in medicine. As a group with wellness faces – everyone is, everyone is an expert in nutrition and I guess anybody with Wikipedia and YouTube is an expert while they just like you need to follow your guts you know, you don’t even need Wikipedia you can do what feels right and then just like have a blog about trust me. Yeah, there was like all sorts of things out there. Yeah. Don’t Don’t Google colonic. You won’t like the results. So lucky it doesn’t have anything to do with my career path.

Adam Pierno 2:04
Laughs

Ana Andjelic 2:07
I mean colonics. I’m kidding. So we’ve started. I’ve been in New York for 18 years. And I moved here from Belgrade, Serbia to do my Master’s in media studies. And then my PhD is theoiology. And when I was doing PhD, I focus on how theology of technology, how society and technologies interact, how we design our values in in technology, and how then technology shapes our behaviors afterwards. And this was all mind you like way before -not way- was a couple of years before Facebook before privacy and different notions of privacy, between before AI and so on. So it was a really exciting time to sort of study technological innovation and how organizations adopt new technology organisations, organize innovation can innovation be organized, how innovation spread through society so so I was lucky to study all of that at the top my mind and in that field, and when I was doing my field research I went to AKQA and then Razorfish and I stayed at Razorfish for two years because was really exciting time it was 2006 and I was like, I need to be quite like I kind of like come pause I mean, I didn’t put pause I just like delayed a bit my my my studies because I was enjoying working with UX designers and content strategists and analytics people and there was the time when when when brands figured out that they can use YouTube for for to for advertising and all of it social media phenomena was just happening. This is really good time to be the digital agency and accidental Huge and then move to creative agency Droga5 and then focus on professional life, luxury and lifestyle and painting agencies at work with those brands

Adam Pierno 4:10
What made you gravitate towards luxury and lifestyle?

Ana Andjelic 4:16
I was not particularly it’s not luxury, professional life, though that, like on a surface level, if I’m interested in I was very interested in the emerging retail models, I am very interested in emerging retail models. And excuse me, to certain extent luxury brands are easy to to to so two views in his example of innovation or leg they’re all because they have oversized cultural influence. They’re not like toilet paper brands, they already influence culture they’re already quite to that conversation. And then when you have the brand will be dead culturally once and we bet sort of status symbols and the road society. They’re already established role in society then it’s it’s it’s fun to explore it almost amplify it and magnified how the project changes. And I started just by looking like it was like, What are the online marketplaces? How does content in commerce mood? What is contextual commerce? What is distributed commerce? How can you find different ways to connect brands and, and and products in that context where where you are like selling set of symbols?

Adam Pierno 5:35
That’s really interesting. And I saw that you posted something with the creative director. I think it was from Dior. And he was talking about the way he doesn’t want he doesn’t like the word exclusivity and he believes that it’s all about common interests and creating communities. Do you think that’s true of most staffing brands?

Ana Andjelic 6:00
Report excuse me was Valentina not Dior Oh, Dear Paulo. No, no, yeah, I like that. Because he said, Oh, I’m not interested in lifestyle lifestyle. And I sort of like a goodies like a marketing concept. And it masks a lot of things. And what basically people saying that that’s why it reflects how I think and that’s why I said it is basically how you find common values within the brand and the different audience groups, and through common interests and things that you do and enjoy doing. And it’s much more granular than than that like sweeping the lifestyle.

Adam Pierno 6:43
It was, it was a really interesting article, although the name of the brand as you can tell, I’m not a fashion connoisseur.

Ana Andjelic 6:51
I mean, like, I’m kidding.

Adam Pierno 6:53
That’s okay. That’s all right. I know, I know.

Ana Andjelic 6:58
I won’t tell anyone just like you, millions and millions of your listeners?

Adam Pierno 7:02
Well, I think when we have will only have a few extra million because you’re on so a bigger audience to be embarrassed in front of, but I’m okay with it. Let’s talk you said that you you gravitated towards luxury lifestyle and fashion because of the emerging retail model. And and a lot of your writing is about that topic. And that’s what made me reach out to you was I love the way you write about the retail model and how its evolving and changing and how digital is impacting it. And I take it almost as an allegory for all other brands, you know, they’re there in the lead because of the the outsized influence they have. But I think we can extrapolate out what it means to the caught the, you know, the more household name brands that are fighting for shelf space and fighting for attention.

Ana Andjelic 7:54
Yeah, I think I think you’re right, I think that’s absolutely true. Because when you think like, what Supreme is doing and how they’re redefining how brands are built? Or Legos are. Handmade brands? What was he doing? What was the Supreme is doing this, they’re building community first and use brand as a platform for their community, but take the brand completely out of the equation, because when you think how brands used to be built, it was like provenance, or it was because identity is New York something and and just a second. And so today’s brands is like it’s about identity, the community that you’re building, and that is community network, and it was pioneered in a fashion and beauty space.

Adam Pierno 8:44
And how, what does that mean for? I mean, I compare that to when you talk about the beauty space, then I start thinking about retail at the typical consumer level in the beauty space, which has moved from, you know, the luxury retailer to you might go to CVS and buy makeup or things and that that experience could not be more different.

Ana Andjelic 9:09
Yeah, the experience is different. But the way that brands are built now are sort of, as I said, we’ll look into those new business models, but they’re also brand building models. They’re like more than brand building models. And some of them they use building community. Some of them use curation, some of them use content, some of them use collaborations, and I think that’s something that all brands can learn from. You don’t need to be Supreme, you can be silly, yes. But you can focus on “How do I connect with my audience? Who is already coming to my store? Who’s already my loyal customer? How can I provide provide value to that customer? How can I next customers get it? Like? Can they share information with each other? Do they want to share information with each other? What kind of content? Do they like what they do collaboration can I do?” I’m not talking about collaborations like drop – Supreme drops, I’m talking about meaningful collaborations that are aligned with the specific needs of the audience. So in that sense, like, I wouldn’t be like literal in in saying, hey, look what Supreme is doing and do the same thing. That’s absolutely wrong. It’s more thinking about like, Hey, there is a nice community with this specific interest. And when you think about like big brands, like Patagonia, for example, they build their brand out of that initial community of like outdoor enthusiasts, their their biggest advocates, biggest fans, and better testers, for whatever they’re doing. So in that sense, like, I think that every brand may have something like even when you talk about toilet paper, or batteries, you can even then need some narrative or a story around sustainability, which is a value, or around supporting local workers, which is again, have it so I think that is possible, to take the best practices and and apply them strategically and not with them

Adam Pierno 11:08
No, that’s great. And I, a lot of those brands are trying to find purpose. But that’s not the same thing as as community, as you’re describing. I mean, sustainability could be thrown away as a marketing purpose or, or a, almost a tagline. But what you’re saying is you can really build a brand to reach people that are in that community of people that really care about it and take meaningful steps to, to bridge that gap and be a part of their conversation when they’re thinking about sustainability, for example.

Ana Andjelic 11:39
Exactly. And, and for me, like the purpose has become a, like a shortcut for a lot of brands to to try to market their relevance, not establish the rules, but markets the relevance, because that’s something you can’t fake it. And if you fake it, people know. So if Patagonia says they’re in the business of keeping the environment alive, that’s probably what they mean. Because if there is no outdoors to go outdoor, what is the point of all their clothes? You know? So in that sense, like, it’s always looking at the bigger picture. But at the same time, the entire organization needs to be aligned and internal culture needs to be aligned with external culture. Otherwise, you’re just faking it. Yep.

Adam Pierno 12:25
Yeah. And that’s those hollow causes are, are killers, they, they break the credibility for any brand that’s actually really trying to make an impact somewhere. Yeah. Talk about fashion brands, then since I’m an outsider to that world, and our our brands in lifestyle and luxury and fashion, are they aligned with these?These purposes, and they have this community alignment?

Ana Andjelic 12:58
Well, I don’t – They don’t. And, like they’re the ones who could easily have it. But for whatever reason, I mean, like, for whatever reason, industries are slow to change their, as long as they’re profitable, they have no reason to change, it’s easier to talk about the reason until they do it. But I think they’re in the best position to, to actually everyone can have a dialogue with culture, but you need to bring something meaningful in and take something meaningful out and it needs to be exchange. So for fashion brands, they started in the ateliers say of Coco Chanel, or if Cimarron Diord or Balenciaga and people when they’re not because just for clothes, but they went there for the conversation for the point of view for like, Coco Chanel changed how modern women dress, she introduced the pants, and you know, so it is like those brands capture the zeitgeist, and and then and then turn it into tangible form through to close, but also the symbols and through the entire spirit, if you want of the brand to set the values. And I think that has been lost largely at least how what is the contemporary expression of those values? And I keep saying values values, because values is for me more more actionable than purpose? Because it’s easier to ask like, “What do people value? What’s valuable to them?” You know, and that’s a great conversation point, that’s a great bridge between the brand and an end consumers – say the same thing that’s valuable to you either environment or or, or, or I don’t know, comfortable life or I don’t know, whatever rocks your boat, then it’s going to be much easier to connect,

Adam Pierno 14:48
Do you think, for a fashion brand. So going back to Valentino, that the conversation that they’re engaging their customers in is the category they have a they have a unique for the true houses that are producing fashion, they have an advantage in which the category is the culture is the conversation piece that they can talk that they can bring to their, their customers and their audience, whereas going back to toilet paper, nobody wants to have that conversation. Or if if you’re Smuckers, nobody wants to have a conversation about jelly, I just want to buy it for $3.29. And get that done.

Ana Andjelic 15:24
Absolutely – Always have to ask what builds a brand brand in a category, like because the building brands are not built in the same way. So sometimes it’s enough to be on my own eye-level on the shelf. Sometimes it’s a friends recommendation, sometimes it’s like, I don’t know, review, or sometimes these influencers were wearing it or something. So of course, it’s always of course, we’ll build the brand in a category. However, now that you’re modernizing one is modernizing the way you’re building brands in a category, I think that there is a lot more cross-pollination than it was before

Adam Pierno 15:59
Does it vary by the brand or by category? Or both? Which which levers you have to pull in your opinion?

Ana Andjelic 16:07
Well, I think that it’s not the question. It depends. The favorite planners answer is like, Well, it depends. Don’t say I did not think about it. So it’s not it’s I think you can be Jell-o. And if your story is, if you have origin story that’s relevant to tell, or that is relevant, you can find a way to to express in a way that people are going to find valuable in social emotional, functional terms. You can build the best jello brand in the world and break the codes of the category, how the how the Jell-o brand is built? So I don’t think that – I don’t think that there are rules anymore. No one on the brand building level because again, modern brands are those who broke the rules of the of, of how of branding, and then categories are impacted by way more than their immediate competitors.

Adam Pierno 17:10
Yeah, no, I think that’s true. I think more than more than we’ve realized. There was a playbook that was created. And now it’s about learning how ideas get around the playbook and using using those ideas to build the brand and and kind of create a myth about the brand using these new tools that we have.

Ana Andjelic 17:31
Yeah, totally. Because the general brand can have like the best Instagram account in the world. And I may use the Instagram account, I may never buy to Jell-o.

Adam Pierno 17:42
But I like I love the pictures. Yeah, or the video. That’s so true. And then I am connected to the brand just in a different way. That is that is I don’t know if it’s more or less meaningful to them. I guess if it doesn’t drive sales, it’s less meaningful.

Ana Andjelic 17:56
Well, that’s, I mean, hopefully to drive sales. Let’s see, let’s leave it a this.

Adam Pierno 18:02
Let’s not talk ourselves out of job. Very good. Let’s let’s shift gears and talk retail. Who is who is doing retail? Well, and you can go as as lowbrow, or as highbrow as you’d like, you know, who are you seeing that is really executing well on on retail?

Ana Andjelic 18:22
Well, there is again, difference between those brands that are always in the news and those brands that are actually doing well. And that’s not exclusive. So for example, Everlane has like the best activations one day, they had, like, I don’t know, posters all over Soho. The next day, they had, I don’t know, like the secret store or the pop-up with the mattress or whatnot. And then I mean, like, it’s insane on a rainy day, on Sunday in New York, there are people like waiting to get into Everlane? And it’s like, what’s your long live you just like go to get, you know, but like, this is the brand, you know,

Adam Pierno 19:09
people are willing to do that Apple like back in back in 2007. Let’s wait in line for this. It’s worth it.

Ana Andjelic 19:16
Right, I got the brand

Adam Pierno 19:17
Is that the brand experience or the retail experience?

Ana Andjelic 19:20
It’s – I don’t think it’s either I think it’s again, going back to the values, the set of values. And because Everlane, like really drummed in that part in the transparency, it was that little, spiffy little graph that shows how much you’re paying for t-shirt and how much it actually costs to create. And then it was like, don’t, I don’t know, we don’t do discounts, but you can choose how much you want to pay. And if you pay X amount, it’s going to go towards like, I don’t know, health insurance or Verizon, you feel like a real asshole if you don’t – Know what I mean, of consistent actions, and now they’re like making shoes and like whatnot, you know, but they started like really, like, slowly to build that and very, very, very consistent way. And that’s at the values was unchanged. And it sort of it may have started with transparency, but now it’s like, oh no, you’re doing real things. You know, like when when sustainable cotton, it’s all real it’s like – so I think it’s, it’s really that. It’s like brand equity in its it’s like purest form, I suppose. And so they I think they’re, they’re not profitable yet, or, you know, like, last time I checked, so they took a lot of money VC money, and they clearly have a lot of stakeholders that I’m but the data is really tough, it’s a tough business. So, you know, you have Warby Parker, which is profitable, then you have, you know, like, you know, those those brands, that is The Reformation, which is also great, which is like, they say “being naked is sustainable option number one, we are number two”, you know, so it’s like a very, very clear message and very, very defined set of values. So I think those are the ones that are really doing well.

Adam Pierno 21:16
And, and those are good examples, because none of them came with a, the, the CPG version of those values as they come forward are so in your face and 30 second videos of, you know, a family hugging, hugging a cotton plant or something that’s shut trying to show off the values versus what Everlane does and what Warby Parker does in a way that makes it feel like I’m participating in it, versus just buying a product that claims to care about it.

Ana Andjelic 21:46
That’s true. And it’s also it’s also true, it’s like that, like act small think big. So it’s like it’s like accumulation of of marginal gains, so to speak, you know, they’re just, like 1% excellence consistently, and those actions accumulate. And they don’t do 30 second spot right, now they can because now people believe them. But if you start with the 30 seconds, like, in advertising, there is a saying, Don’t tell me you’re funny. Tell me a joke. Now they’re doing that. And other brands are telling you they’re fun, you know, like, “Next.”

Adam Pierno 22:24
right? I’m not I’m not exactly buying it. But you have to prove and earn the credibility before you can do it.

Ana Andjelic 22:32
Exactly. So and you need to walk the walk. And I think that’s what, and then I don’t know, I think Target is, I even think Walmart is doing, like good stuff when you know, and they have like their acquisition of DTC brands and, you know, and they’re trying to, to invest in that, that they’re figuring out. Okay, what’s next in CPG? Let’s see what’s going on. You know, let’s see how we can innovate the last mile be let’s see how we can innovate online experience because Amazon is breathing behind their back, you know, so I think in that sense, like, whoever is willing to change what they’re doing, and adapt. I think they’re doing a good job.

Adam Pierno 23:25
But to their credit they are innovating in retail and the last mile I have a feeling they’re the some things will change because I don’t think they understood how different the jet.com business is from the Walmart business. And I also don’t think they that delivery that they were they were using their own employees to just get in the car and deliver things. I’m not sure that they had that all figured out. But it is interesting to see such a big company, try and

Ana Andjelic 24:01
exactly be done. If you don’t test things you’re never going to learn. So I think it’s and I’m pretty sure that they’re making very head bets. They’re not like mindlessly, like flapping in all directions. So I’m willing to see what they come up with.

Adam Pierno 24:21
Well, let’s since you brought up Walmart, I mean, that’s that’s the big brick and mortar that’s, that’s the biggest one maybe that’s ever been and maybe that ever will be the way things are going. Do you think

Ana Andjelic 24:33
No – Amazon is to be the Amazon wins like no matter which category Amazon wants to zoom in? There’s like evil eye, you know, and like Lord of the Rings, you know,

Adam Pierno 24:42
You see – even when they announce a business it moves markets when they say we’re going to go into the insurance business it moves the market. Yeah.

Ana Andjelic 24:51
Yeah, exactly. Health insurance crash, like the moment Amazon – Yeah. So I mean, I think they just seen efficiencies in different markets. And they’re like, hey,

Adam Pierno 25:03
How do you think what when Target really hit its stride? 10, 12, 15 years ago? It had that fast fashion swagger to it were and then they were they kept that growth going? Where they were partnering with designers and releasing collections. Do you think Walmart has kind of slowly and steadily improved what they carry? It’s still not fashionable, I mean still not high fashion and still not fashion on the par with target. But do you think those large scale retailers will get on board with fashion? Or do you think fashion? And do you think fashion is too far outside the mainstream? For them to really, really sink their teeth into it?

Ana Andjelic 25:50
Well, I think like the real challenge in is the fashion for 99%. You know, like, it’s okay, we nailed fashion for one percent down, you know, it’s great to have like a dress that costs 10 thousand dollars. And yes, Jasmine, she blah, blah, blah. But for me, it’s like, it’s a real challenge to like, deliver everyone. Not everyone, but like, a lot of people wanted that joy of fashion. So it’s like this feeling that you know, that energy and and, and that satisfaction and self perception that comes with it. So for me, the challenge is like, how do you really socialize that? And how do you how do you really deliver that it scale? Exactly. bling, and that turned out to be like, well, it’s unbelievably cheap. They’re like, designed for it to be worn 10 times and then you throw them away. So it’s like, it’s catastrophic for the planet and so on. So I would like to see that, like, what is happening? What does it mean? If you if you if you have a Walmart, and then is it middle of nowhere, and then when people go in to buy groceries, and then they stay for for something else, you know, that can be a community, it can be like, I don’t know, whatever, some meetup, some some some sort of conversation, or they just want to browse what’s out there. And it’s affordable to that, you know, and I think that’s where real innovation comes in with with the subscription services or like monthly fees or with late payments older, no one needs to go even more in depth. That’s my opinion. So I think there is a there is for me, best vantage point and Target did for designer collaborations was building their own in house brands. They have a large number of in house brands, which is which are based on the data that they have. And they’re like creating cost effective alternatives to high fashion brands they have that share the same trendiness if you will, and you have a certain quality that’s higher than then fast fashion, like, the sort of the place then you can have – like known as Walmart, like Walmart, not just fashion items I honestly don’t have anything against that. I think it’s really the democratization and the ultimate for me, because we made fun of people of Walmart. But that’s, you know, that’s sort of like there is a big leveling that’s happened in fashion. And I believe that anyone should have access.

Adam Pierno 28:18
Yeah, I agree. It all ultimately, the things that are on the runway influence what’s carried in Walmart one way or the other. I mean, it’s not

Ana Andjelic 28:25
Well, the runway, maybe less and more street style,] and more what you see on Instagram, and yeah, so I think like if that sort of participation in popular culture because when you look at the selfies like everyone from everyone wants to be an influencer

Adam Pierno 28:43
Yes. Yeah, that is a that’s a different that’s a different podcast. I think we will have you back on to talk about that. Do you think the brands that are doing luxury retail well, so go back to Everlane, Warby Parker with their very cool stores? Have you seen an impact on larger scale? retailers where they’re trying to mimic those things? I don’t, I don’t think I’ve detected too much of it yet.

Ana Andjelic 29:14
You mean like Target and Walmart and stuff.

Adam Pierno 29:18
Or any or any department stores

Ana Andjelic 29:19
Well Nike is doing like great stuff with experiential retail and they’re like, sort of the future in California and like so on. So Nike is doing but department stores? I don’t think so I think like metaphor day online is doing but I don’t think that department stores here really unlocked. How to be relevant how to become curators, rather than just like aggregators or whatever their merchants think will sell?

Adam Pierno 29:50
Do you think department stores are going to figure it out? Are they going to get just it’s going to keep shrinking

About their divided all in the in the retail ecosystem? Because they were the ones who were the tastemakers and the gatekeepers and the you know, decision makers they were they were the ones who decided which parts of the runway or which items are going to reach customers and then they were pushed those two customers and then the that’s how customers actually shop but then we sort of social media can see whatever you want, you can you know, buy whatever you want. And then you can see all the time collection and you know, they they lost their their middlemen role and is every middleman across industries, they will now need to either figure out the new role for themselves, or, you know, do something else.

Do you see one brand over another like will Macy’s figure it out before Nordstrom? Or do you have a front runner that you think will figure out that role?

Ana Andjelic 30:52
Well Macy’s is trying they’re like the they’re the organizing their stores and the merchandising, the layout, the experience, and so on. So I wouldn’t say like, they’re all like doomed, like everyone is trying their best, you know, like Nordstrom cares is like pop in, which is kind of like pop ups but in Nordstrom, which is showcase like up-and-coming designers. So you know, like, it’s a contimuum – thing with recycling, you don’t go from I don’t know, like, throwing everything in one trash can to driving past life process.

Adam Pierno 31:31
Right. All right. And last, the last question I have is for you about Amazon wardrobe. As you were talking about Walmart trying to figure out the last mile and then we we talked about, we started moving into apparel, I started thinking about Amazon wardrobe, which is essentially Rent the Runway, it’s a it’s a by version of Rent the Runway, whether they’ll send you the clothes to try on and you just sent back whatever you don’t water doesn’t fit. I’m surprised we haven’t seen much, much more of that with the success of all the subscription apps and services. I’m surprised that the bigger department stores and others haven’t gotten in on that.

Ana Andjelic 32:16
They don’t have the data because when you look at the Stitchfix, they’re like all investors love Stitchfix because Katrina, like she’s a woman, and they’re like, they’ve been attacked, there are no women invest, you know, like, founders and and they’re like, Oh, you know, like Stitchfix they can understand, I guess, part of their brains and understand what what, what, you know, how to combine data and fashion and because the lack of investment across the board is like, or how hard that it was for female founders to find investment and fashion beauty brands before the successes of Emily Weiss anyways, talked to like, I think 11 investors before, bring you her money. So it’s kind of like, like who on investing despite understanding of what that lifestyle brands do, or fashion, beauty lifestyle brands. So for the trick, they can sort of understand it, because it’s like very data carry. But for me Stitchfix is not the brand is like it’s a service is like there’s no emotional connect, I mean, their, their their mission statement can excite absolutely, like no one. I think that this more Stitchfix is great for men, I think that’s a giant opportunity. And I I know, like people do use it. So this is not this is my, you know, observation, it just takes more is like you need to have some, like some vibrant community around that, you know, fashion is fun. Fashion is not the problem to be solved.

Adam Pierno 33:44
Yeah, and you can’t, when you treat it like software, that’s what you get

Ana Andjelic 33:49
That, you’re right, so that like this, like long lens actually went back to your question is like, it’s all about data. And it’s all about like, I think like mattress fashion, for example, let the put their they have all the VIP services that have personal stylist that could connect to their customers, you know, like anywhere anytime around the world. And they those guys are doing doing sort of styling suggestions, but they don’t do it at scale do in order to do this scale and have really subscription service, you have a unit have a giant, then you can have a handful of stylist and then you can make in the 10s of thousands of style profiles. And those department stores don’t have it. They don’t have they don’t have data. They’re not organized around data. They’re not organized around customer. They’re not even organized on customer journey. So you know, like in order to get to the subscription service, you can’t just be like, Hey, I mean, we could eat if Barney’s were like, Oh, I’m going to you know, like, pay for what you know, for what you keep and I’m going to send you all these amazing brands like sure but I guess the the infrastructure the resources, human and technological deliver that are right now to massive and I don’t think they’re even invest in that.

Adam Pierno 35:11
And to that point, I mean, if we’re saying Stitch Fix isn’t a brand, because it’s a service. I feel the same way about Macy’s and similar sized department stores, are there more services, their their boxes that I go to find brands, but they’re not. They don’t I don’t have any connection if I go to Dillard’s or Macy’s or Nordstrom, and one doesn’t matter to me more than the next necessarily.

Ana Andjelic 35:34
Yeah, I think that’s the Net a Porter did goods fine, because the manage to turn – like some would argue that service is a brand and yesterday in some categories that that’s true. And I think that like what Net a Porter is done is turn that aggregator service into curated, and because they have like content with that edit, and then they have a community and then you have the desk packaging, and it’s like door to door anymore. We’re live and online, and they’re printed, everything is very consistent. And really go to net the portal to buy something from Farfetch, for example, or Amazon, you Google it. And then if it’s the best price, if it’s like that they have your size and so on. So you don’t really go there is a destination is a destination for a lot of customers.

Adam Pierno 36:24
That’s right. That’s a good great example. All right, well, I think I think I’ve exhausted your time and tapped into your into your brain on this topic. I really appreciate you making time to chat.

Ana Andjelic 36:35
No, thanks for having me. On. Uh, where can people find you online? The company everywhere online. So

Adam Pierno 36:44
Just look, they will find you.

Ana Andjelic 36:45
Yeah, just google me. I’m like Farfecth, I just got more they just just Google.

Well, I’m on Instagram, I’m on Twitter. And my handle is always the same. It’s my last name, which is angelic in DJ la See, and then three as a on Instagram on Twitter, or my website has the same URL. So that’s them. And thank you for asking. So I can do a little Roma plugin here.

Adam Pierno 37:15
Absolutely. Absolutely. Are you Do you have any speaking or anything coming up? I know you’re.

Ana Andjelic 37:22
I really do. I’m doing some venture capital conference here in in New York on April 4. And then I have some speaking thing in Athens in mid May and yeah, so there is always something you know,

Unknown Speaker 37:37
I love it. I

Adam Pierno 37:38
love how your your brain works and how

how you get it down on paper. Whenever you whenever I see a link that has your name on it. I always stop what I’m doing. Read it.

Ana Andjelic 37:49
No, that’s really sweet. Thank you. Can you see my fastcompany article? The one about algorithms you didn’t ask me anything

Adam Pierno 37:57
I did not ask you about it is too new. It is in my head paper right now.

Ana Andjelic 38:01
Okay, sounds good. Next time.

Unknown Speaker 38:02
Next time. I would love to have you back.

Ana Andjelic 38:05
Thank you Adam.

Adam Pierno 38:06
Alright. Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate you making time.

Ana Andjelic 38:09
Thank you. Thank you for getting me. Sure. It’s all

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Yeah, just google me. I’m like Cyrus, I just got more they just just Google.

Well, I’m on Instagram, I’m on Twitter. And my handle is always the same. It’s my last name, which is andjelic A-N-D-J-E-L-I-C and then three a’s a on Instagram on Twitter, or my website has the same URL. So that’s them. And thank you for asking. So I can do a little Roma plugin here.

Adam Pierno  37:15 

Absolutely. Absolutely. Are you Do you have any speaking or anything coming up? I know you’re.

Ana Andjelic  37:22 

I really do. I’m doing some venture capital conference here in in New York on April 4. And then I have some speaking thing in Athens in mid May and yeah, so there is always something you know,

Adam Pierno  37:38 

I love how your your brain works and how you get it down on paper. Whenever you whenever I see a link that has your name on it. I always stop what I’m doing. Read it.

Ana Andjelic  37:49 

No, that’s really sweet. Thank you. Can you see my fastcompany article? The one about algorithms you didn’t ask me anything

Adam Pierno  37:57 

I did not ask you about it is too new. It is in my Paper right now.

Ana Andjelic  38:01 

Okay, sounds good. Next time.

Adam Pierno  38:02 

Next time. I would love to have you back.

Ana Andjelic  38:05 

Thank you Adam.

Adam Pierno  38:06 

Alright. Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate you making time.

Ana Andjelic  38:09 

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

One Response

  1. Hi Adam, thanks for trying out Otter! One tips: if you have Otter Premium plan, you can enter your guests’ names (e.g. “Ana Andjelic”) and any jargons and/or domain-specific terms in Settings > Manage vocabulary, and @otter_ai will learn and recognize it correctly in your account to produce an even more accurate transcript.

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