Over the past year, I’ve been living almost exclusively online. If I had to guess, I would estimate I’ve watched more than 200 movies and competed a dozen series. I wrote and recorded a bunch. I’ve played video games and scrolled multiple marathons distance on Twitter. And then came TikTok. Oh boy, Clubhouse.
In marketing, advertising, whatever, we call them ‘experiences’ (myself included) but I think that is what the youth would call “bullshit”. It’s amazing how little of that screen time I have memories of. It has all blurred together. My memories are all of physical, real-world experiences. I’m not sure how many of those movies that I watched that I could name at the moment, through some were excellent.
This weekend, I drove to a store to buy something for less than $10 that Amazon probably could have delivered in the same day because I couldn’t stand looking at a screen any more. Going to Home Depot is no exciting feat, but I found myself looking forward to it, if for no other reason than it was a change of scenery. An experience (sort of), but not much more memorable than scrolling Netflix or Twitter. And when I had the product I needed, I had to check myself out. Ultimately, it was still me and a screen.
I wonder when this is all over what the collective drive to escape screen experiences is going to do to our lives and culture. There will certainly a burst of imaginative events and retail, and I wonder how much they’ll end up being odd fads versus long-term trends shaped by this odd year we ‘experienced’ together.
This week, I have the fantastic James Gregson, digital creative director at LEGO, one of my favorite brands. I learned to love LEGO as a child, but continued loving it playing their video games and then assembling models with my own children. I followed James on (virtual) stage at a Brand Innovators event and was captivated by his point of view. He was kind enough to join me for this talk about combining the online and offline.
Listen to this episode here: http://specific.substack.com/p/james-gregson-puts-it-together/
Adam Pierno: Alright, welcome back to another episode of the strategy inside everything. It is an early start for us here today. My guest has been very kind to start his day with us he’s, he’s taken a break from doomscrolling with me, and we are. We’re going to try to power through this one we’ve scheduled it a few times and we’re finally ready to go. Mr. James Gregson who is a digital creative director at Lego, which is a passion brand for me and my family and probably a lot of you listening was kind enough to join me How are you, James.
James Gregson: Good, thanks for having me and I think it’s earlier for you than it is for me but I think those of us that have kids, early is usually better in most cases so we’ll just go with it.
07:08:04 Adam: I think so, yeah, I think that’s true. Thanks so much for making time I followed you on a Brand Innovators session at the end of the year I think it was in October, November, and I was, as I just told you I was just kind of captivated watching you as I was in the, quote unquote, Zoom green room or whatever it was. And then they were like Adam now you’re up and I was like well now hold on I’m thinking about something totally different than when I’m supposed to speak about so I reached out right away and said, Oh, I want to talk more to James this is this is really interesting stuff.
07:08:36 James: Awesome, thanks for that yeah no I mean you know you sometimes walk blindly into some of these things but you know it’s a great opportunity to take yourself out of your day. That’s why I love these sort of opportunities, it’s a it’s a good reminder of why I love my job, and takes as I said takes you out of maybe some of the mundane, sort of day to day tasks.
07:09:00 Adam: Yeah. Before we get going. Would you mind give people a sense of where you’ve been and what you’ve done because you didn’t just sprout up at Lego you have quite a career before you got there, I did not.
07:09:12 James: So, I was college educated right around the time Facebook was a thing. So, you know, somewhat similar to what they talked about in point, and you know the the PC and Mr. Gates. You know, you – I just became a social media native because of, you know, pure timing. I was a computer animation with a minor in painting, that was my major. Really transferable skills those men never had any intention of, you know, becoming a true artist in the sense, and actually sort of never had the word creative in my job title, or even surreal job description until last year. So I was not, you know, expecting to go into the creative field. But I started my career in PR within the sort of agency space which I think at that time was sort of the the category or, you know, industry that was best suited to manage social media at the time, which was really sort of influencers in the form of bloggers. I remember, at least starting the first blogger relations campaign I’m really dating myself now I know it sounds like the stone age’s doesn’t it.
07:10:28 Adam: It does.
07:10:29 James: But that’s really sort of where I started in it and it just evolved from there. So I spent a lot of time in the agency space. And we’re for agencies publicly owned privately owned, you know, global to start up, and then decided to start up my own organization doing anything from, You know, some design work app development website development community management, social media advertising all that sort of stuff. And I wasn’t doing it all I was just bringing in, you know, experts based on the different projects, and then sort of overseeing it given sort of my area of expertise and my sister general understanding of the digital space. And that’s how I got connected to Lego.
Adam: That’s pretty cool were you working for them before you came on full time.
07:11:18 James: Yeah, so I was working I sort of, I had my own sort of direct clients, you know, across various brands that also white labeled sort of my services design services social media services to a lot of PR agencies because that’s where a great deal of my network was at that time, and got connected with the time Flashpoint PR which was the time Legos long standing PR agency I was working with them on a handful of their clients as well as you know eventually getting connected with with Lego through them.
07:11:57 Adam: Nice. Yeah, and in your role at like what is, what are the boundaries for digital creative director at Lego. Is it mostly rely on Tom’s or what why there’s so many parts of that no Empire accident.
07:12:12 James: Absolutely. It is a highly matrix. I like to remind people that, you know, while it sounds like I have a fancy title I’m still a, not even a cog in the machine I’m a cog in a very big machine. So, you know, I started at like a within what was then the global social media team which was sort of a very end to end social media setup, you know across community management channel strategy campaign execution. Even performance marketing, all the way through to analytics and it was sort of this very beginning to end set up, but really to sort of scale it to the level of where we wanted it to go. You know there were decisions made to sort of break that that social media organization and into various parts of the business. Right, so the community engagement team, you know moved into customer service, makes a lot of sense. The strategy team moved into our broader internal agency Strategy Team. Sorry, I’ll turn that off. And it just started, you know, to sort of scale and sort of build out various teams within existing larger teams. You know, so the social media was sort of not a center of excellence, it was more, you know, competency throughout larger departments within, within Lego soon. Part of our internal creative agency, working as a, as a creative director across digital content. So not just social content, or digital content as a whole so everything across Legos owned digital ecosystem. So, app experience, all that sort stuff.
07:14:09 Adam: Well that’s that’s interesting and smart to see how they tried to make it part of the fabric of the organization, instead of having a social team has it worked better.
07:14:19 Adam: I think it definitely has yes it definitely has anything the challenge you have a large organization with a category like social is, you know, social prides itself on being agile and by having a beginning to end set up you are certainly able to be more agile right i think what you end up doing is you end up. You know, so for the areas you lose a little bit of autonomy, You do gain a wider sort of galvanized ation of stakeholders across the organization which, at the end of the day is is really important, but it’s a fine balance right it’s having those processes, still in place to be ensuring that you, one can react in an agile manner, while also ensuring that, you know, for better for worse right you know great social media is supported by media budget. These days, and in order to gain media budget you know you’ve got to follow the money. And in our case, you know the money sits within you know the the regional marketing departments, right, they have the media dollars, and we need to bring them along along in our, you know, creative strategic journey in order to sort of, you know, sell in those sort of ideas.
07:15:37 Adam: Yeah, the closer you are to the business, the better chance you haven’t been funded I found,
James: Absolutely, yes.
Adam: What I wanted to ask you about what I, what I’ve been pondering it, we’ve just passed the, the Christmas season gift giving season, and I know that’s a busy time for you all. I’ve been wondering a lot about Lego as, as I grew up with a solely physical product, you know the toys that are tactile you play with them in your hands, and in, I’m old, so when I grew up there were not a lot of licensing deals, it was the, the Lego themed take on Lego City and all the parts that you could have. And what I want to talk to you about. I’m interested in your point of view on how do you create digital experiences, or how do you make it relevant in a, in a 2d world where I’m scrolling or I’m watching video or I’m engaging with an app, and try it. Are you trying to replicate that same sense of wonder as you know somebody using their imagination or what’s what I don’t want to put words in your mouth, what is the approach that you take?
07:16:42 James: It’s a great question right because you know whether we like it or not, the world is moving into a far more digital space of digital experience right, you know even ignoring the prolific proliferation of social media, you know, kids these days are, attached to a digital device in one shape or form. But they’re awesome as parents like that or not is neither here nor there. So I think at the end of the day, you know, our, our primary goal is to what we call the inspire the builders or tomorrow. Right. So I think, you know, inspiring builders. Kids parents, whatever it may be, can be done through digital expression very easily. As long as we don’t lose the core value proposition of our product which is the brick, right, it’s the tactile physical creative expression, through the brick and that needs to consistently be translated through digital experiences, I think, also, you know, as you know, you know as the sort of play, category evolves, and, you know, kids are consuming play experiences in all forms. You know, we certainly need to evolve our sort of presence and, you know, our CMO talks, a great length about how she wants to take us to becoming an experienced brands. And I think moved into that, entertainment, space, really well with, you know, the various movies that we have the, you know, TV show animation series that we have across Netflix and Nickelodeon and such. And, you know, we really want to bridge that brand experience together right across digital across, you know, retail, you know across that entertainment space. And of course, across the building experience so it’s really looking at bridging that entire gap, not going all in on digital and forgetting about that tactile experience.
Adam: No, that’s really that’s important and I have, I have kids that are, you know, 10 and 12 now and so we have been to Lego Land which is another asset that a lot of brands don’t have it. So I’m assuming that that play space and figuring out how to tie in Lego stores that retail component as well. You have so many tools, how does digital – how do you think about digital? Is it another touch point or is it meant to be kind of a fabric, how do you as you’re creating things, how are you thinking about it.
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07:19:25 James: I think as you pointed out right so right now and it is just an additional touch point. But moving towards becoming that experience you want it to be fully weaved into, you know, that great experience right and i think you look at Apple’s is a great way as a great product while it’s still, you know, in most cases a digital product, you know they’ve built in Apple ID is a way to, you know, connect everything together. From checking yourself into the Genius Bar to, you know, physically getting the apple credit card and there was a physical thing. The, the experience drives you to some sort of digital touch points. So various that that inherent connection between the two. and while I don’t know whether we’re going to completely go into forcibly creating a digital experience from a physical experience. We certainly want to create opportunities that complement one another, both sides, you know, a digital experience that can be complemented by a physical experience, and then a physical experience that can be complemented by digital experience.
07:20:32 Adam: You already in the progress in the process of thinking through how one feeds to another or is that kind of on the horizon?
James: Oh, it’s definitely in the works. As I sort of alluded to, it’s, it’s not something that we’re going to kick off immediately and I think it it it does happen over time. Right, so everything from digital building instructions. And that’s an experience and how does that, you know, evolve to, you know, how do we, you know, develop more products like hidden side where there was, you know, a digital experience from the physical building experience. You know, I think, while it’s certainly a hot topic I, I still think there’s a ways to go, also from a consumer end of, of wanting to bridge those two experiences. So we’re you know we’re certainly testing and learning as we go.
07:21:22 Adam: This is so interesting to me when I have a question about creative briefs for you because when I gotta I gotta laugh just by saying creative briefs I think you I think you may know where this is going. What creatives want, I’ve been a creative director and now I’m on the strategy side I’m writing creative briefs. Yeah, what creatives want is a type brief. And what I wonder from your team is when there’s so much potential, when really, you have a we can make a cartoon, we can make something and something that happens at Legoland in person we can do a store activation or change the store I mean, nothing is really potentially off the table if somebody dreams it up. How do you take briefs or how do you think about breeds and you can go beyond Lego I just mean when you have so much potential? How do you think about compartmentalizing the work to to generate ideas.
James: The challenge I think the biggest challenge we have at Lego is that, like, it’s some time certainly to brand level like or wants to be all things to all people.
07:22:23 Adam: Right. And from that, the creative side and from a from a briefing side.
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07:22:29 James: That’s not really easy to do, to be quite frank and definitely not right. I think for us you know I think the biggest challenge. And, you know, my marketing partners won’t be surprised when I say this I think, you know, we have sometimes duplicative objectives, and that’s I, the end of the day, you know, we are still a consumer product and consumer products are measured on sales. Right, so it’s very much a lot of our briefs come in around how do we drive sales, how do we get products off shelf? I think what we are trying to do within the internal agency side across job strategy and creative that informs briefs is how can we take a sales of j objective across this given theme, and broaden it and make it bigger than just selling this Minecraft SKU. For example, right, and how do we become, how do we make this more about gaming as a category as an audience as a high affinity gamers and low affinity gamers, right, and bring, you know, try and satisfy both sides of that audience right and broaden it, that’s, you know, that’s definitely a journey that we’re all on and it definitely becomes a prioritization is more than anything else, because while, you know, we want to be all things to all people that opens up the door for a wide variety of opportunity.
07:23:56 Adam: And sometimes all opportunities are not created equal.
07:24:00 James: And it’s, it’s, you know, having that very collaborative discussion, you know across our marketing partners who own the media budgets, who are informing a lot of the briefs, or at least the direction of the briefs the initial directions of the brief and trying to, you know, bridge gaps between two briefs, or, you know, as I said, just make something bigger than maybe it was initially briefed it s.
Adam: Yeah, I mean I would imagine in in the place as complex as Lego to briefs would be easy. You know there’s probably so many conflicting not conflicting but yeah right there’s probably a lot of bordering projects that all of a sudden, are, are near to each other and proximity, all of a sudden you’re saying well maybe we need to figure out how to tie that in this.
James: Yeah, it is definitely it is definitely a reality.
07:24:48 Adam: You mentioned, everything comes down to the brick. And, you know, I’ve been following Lego on social and I see a lot of kind of stop motion and a lot of digital animation and definitely using a brick as a as an icon but also using it as a source of inspiration. Have you, how do you talk about the brick internally does it have a, I mean how do you guys think about the brick What if it’s all the essence of what you’re building from? Is that something you talked about a lot about?
07:25:26 James: No not really because I think we, I think getting that high in the, you know, strategic communication cloud might get lost a lot of parents yeah i mean i think we talked about a lot, the top eight of open ended, creativity, and, you know, imagination, and certainly in some cases you know our biggest push right now and over the last year or two has been around rebuild the world, which is our sort of brand platform.
07:25:57 Adam: Yep, really talks about that, that sort of that core value proposition of the brain, right, that it is much more about.
07:26:08 James: I think about how historically the product was interacted with which was building or rebuilding and and you know building again in that sense, whereas now, I think what we seen is the experience, maybe because you know our, our models, just become so cool, and maybe they weren’t that cool before where it’s become a lot more of a build once and put on your shelf type experience. You know, we really want to bring it back to, as I said, the sort of the core value proposition which was about, and rebuilding. So I think that’s, that’s about as high up that we sort of talked about that, the brick and itself. My father and
Adam: Yeah, same here.
James: You know, I think I, in some cases, I don’t even know if I ever built the model I think I probably built the model but I vividly remember you know having bins remember those pop used to get those try popcorn.
07:27:18 Adam: Yeah. And yeah, just for 400 pieces yeah 400 bricks.
James: And then I would throw all of the eat all the popcorn events they put all my Lego in there and I had like four or five bins of that. And, you know, it was that sort of that player experience that high level play experience that I think we talked, we talked about trying to bring back.
07:27:38 Adam: Well, the, the models used to and I think they still do this but it would come on the back page of the instructions would just show you a finished alternate idea that you could do with the same pieces and I remember I would put together the core model. And then I would destroy it and then I would go try to put together the other ones without, you know, just looking at the end piece and trying to figure out, oh okay I could do this or that or this. But you, I actually wrote about this in my book, that when you have a licensed Avengers fortress. It does feel like “oh that was the intent. I don’t want to disassemble this and try to do anything else.”
07:28:15 James: Yeah.
Adam: This was what we wanted and now here it is and I’m done, versus versus you know the Lego airport, let’s take it apart and now we’ll make a Lego helicopter pad or a hospital or something else.
07:28:27 James: Yeah, and that’s you know we definitely have that experience I think you know there’s certainly a lot of sets where we you know we want to try to inspire that. But at the same time, you know, I think it’s a it’s a sensitive balance because, you know, some people, certainly in the adult category are building the products because they want to display it right, it’s built display. It’s a built one type experience I think what we want to bring to the forefront, is that there is, there are more options beyond just that right and it can be a bunch of different things.
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07:29:05 And that’s I think where, where we’re looking to take the products and where we’re looking to sort of inspire that that open ended creativity.
07:29:14 Adam: When you think about digital and social or do you think about it as, is it core to a brand story, or is it an extension of the brand story at this point?
07:29:31 James: Both.
07:29:32 Adam: Yeah.
07:29:34 James: I think it’s both. I really think it’s both it just depends. It depends on the audience, it depends on the objective, it depends on a great, a great number of variables. Yeah, yeah. And I guess it did like everything else, it depends on the, the objectives, it depends on the maturity of the brain depends on the user’s.
07:30:04 Adam: You mentioned Minecraft, I know in my house, we have Minecraft on a couple platforms, we have Roblox fever running through my kid’s laptops. How do you look at those two powerhouses and and think about Lego? I mean they’re not directly related but they sure owe you a debt of of inspiration I would say,
James: Oh absolutely, absolutely. And I think they talk, they’re the perfect example of what you know a digital manifest as successful digital manifestation of a physical play experience could look like. And I think for us, you know, philosophically we’re still trying to balance that the parents desire to reduce screen time, and focus on, you know, sort of physical playtime. And I think that’s, you know, one of the core successes to the product, you know for such a long time, is because it, it is a physical play experience and not a digital play experience, and that in the eyes of the parents, and you know, and many others is is a good thing. So I think that’s, that’s the sensitive balance that we will always have,
07:31:10 you know, bet you know what was certainly supportive of, you know, the Minecraft games and you know the experience of that creates, and how that brings you know the physical products the digital world, but will still always be at the core of a, you know, the physical experience will always be at the core of what we try and do. Yeah, no, that makes sense that makes sense and you have the, you have Minecraft skews as well as you mentioned and so you’re, you’re almost doing the opposite in that case of creating the physical manifestation of the digital your life for people so that in some cases mom and dad can experience Minecraft for the first time if they’re sitting around the table, they’re laying on the floor playing with those sets.
07:31:52 Adam: Yeah. What’s the, do you get that kind of feedback from from parents that it’s get showing them the potential of of both of those things when they when they are using those models?
07:32:07 James: I think so yeah I think, you know, there, there’s two sort of core components to that the play experience that you know we’re looking to sort of evolve. That sort of informs a lot of our, you know, creative output is that, you know, building, you know, building with, you know, your sibling, your parents or your partner, whatever it may be, is definitely you know I think that’s one of the great sort of the product and something that certainly is supported, a lot of our success last year. You know through the likes of covered where you know people are looking for physical, you know, collaborate collaborative experiences that weren’t bingeing 10 hours and Netflix, right, sure that still happened.
07:32:57 Adam: Yeah.
07:32:58 James: So I think it listen it’s definitely, it’s definitely a component to the, to the building experience. You know, but I think you want, we also want to bring parents of all, you know, all ages and you know builders or not builders along in that journey, we’ve definitely you know gotten feedback around, you know, you know, building for some parents is intimidating but you know they’re there is an experience to be had for as a parent, you know, building with your kid, I can certainly say from, from my perspective, you know, I’ve got a three year old daughter. We have far more Duplo than any house household would never need for the. And, you know, she might not be incredibly into the, the sort of the build experience at a at a set level, but, you know, we, at least once a week are building the tallest tower and see how we can build it right and i think that there’s, you know there’s building experiences that that can bring parents and kids in in very different ways, and that’s what you know I think gets us excited.
Adam: Yeah that’s that’s extremely valuable, and I think we’ve all anybody with families has gone through the stages of quarantine that are. “Okay, let’s do arts and crafts now let’s spend a week bingeing TV in separate rooms” and then just up and down of trying to balance togetherness and trying to balance. “Let’s be off the screens okay now I just need a break from everybody because things are really hairy” or, you know, all the ups and downs. But Lego is a great equalizer because especially if you’re not trying to build a model. If you’re doing what you’re doing, where you’re saying let’s just use our imagination and, oh you want to go let’s see how tall, we can go great. It’s easy. It doesn’t take it. you don’t have to be you know you mentioned you study painting, if, if my kids said they wanted to set up an easel and paint, I could imagine a parent being intimidated because they don’t know how to do that.
07:35:04 James: Lego loses it to worry about that. Yeah, it’s definitely true, but it’s the stuff I think, you know what code has done to humankind’s routine, right, is completely break it, to some extent, for sure, they previously we definitely got a lot of insight from parents and said you know the building experience was an opportunity to give their kids something to do. So, parent x could do X, Y and Z, right, whether it was work whether it was, you know, make dinner. There was definitely that that unfortunate disconnect because we were all inherently too busy, I think, coven is maybe in a good way, forced that togetherness component that maybe was missed.
07:35:52 Adam: When we were all far too busy.
07:35:55 James: You know, and it’s, it’s brought people together so we’re definitely trying to do that a lot more, you know you’ll certainly see, you know, from a campaign we launched called Lego Build day, which was around sort of
Adam: On Boxing Day right? It was the 26th.
07:36:10 James: Yes, exactly. And that was very much around that idea of, you know, togetherness, and building even if you are, you know, a single person living by yourself. You know, we wanted to try and, you know, connect them with other builders across the world through the digital experience, so that they felt, you know, connected and that that is, you know, sort of an interesting evolution of, sort of, what COVID has done to society I think I know for sure.
Adam: I was thinking about Build Day in the context of YouTube and TikTok and wondering you know having people build on camera, or even Twitch, I guess, having people build models or build their own creations on camera if you’re seeing increases in that over the past year through code.
07:36:58 James: I don’t necessarily see an increase of that I think they’re there is definitely certainly from our high affinity fans that, you know, that desire to share right so and also that inherent desire to, to, to see things happen over time right so i to always talk about you know the the eagle’s nest, or, you know, the pregnant giraffe on YouTube and the live stream around that, you know, we have definitely leaned into, you know, what an eight hour build would look like on YouTube.
07:37:32 Adam: Right.
James: We’ve done that, you know, sort of, mimicking what a lot of our fans of john and that’s definitely sort of at an experience of where we’re looking to evolve and looking to make, you know, part of that sort of that build experience certainly for some of our larger models for example, we’ve definitely thought about how do we bring that into retail and sort of make it. You know, both the physical and digital experience, obviously, coven had something to say about that. Yeah, sure. So I Yeah, it’s definitely, it’s definitely part of the consideration.
07:38:06 Adam: That’s really cool. This has been great, James it’s been so nice talking to you and kind of getting inside your head as you’re sorting through a lot of the challenges that both covered but also just a very, very broad opportunity brand that has so many ways to, to engage in so many ways to win it’s, it’s, I think from the outside you might say, oh well that’s that’s a dream brand to work on and then you get in there and I would imagine, like I said, because there’s so much possibility, it can be almost you. Now you find yourself in amazed, what’s the ramp up period.
James: Yes, and that is that is very true, right, I think, you know, as I spoke about before we started recording right now I think that the eight year old version of me, would not believe that I have a job at Lego, and that is definitely a reality. It is still a job right and there still are all the sort of side effects of a job. It’s a corner, you know, and I think but on the flip side, you know, having a job that, you know, being purpose driven is, is you know core to what Lego is about, you know, before being purpose driven was really a thing. You know, inspiring builders or tomorrow is a really heartwarming mission to have behind what what we do, and it really is, you know, a driving force behind what we do. Right. And I think, you know, that, that is an incredibly lucky position to be in.
07:39:43 Adam: Especially, you know, being a parent and understanding, you know the the digital proliferation of, of, you know, iPads and digital content and, you know, having a product that brings you together.
07:40:00 James: There are a few things better than that.
07:40:01 Adam: Yeah, I kind of imagined starting there would be like in the movie big like McMillan toys. All your play you just think it’s going to be playing on the floor and trying out different models and then you realize like no no no, there’s actually objectives and projects and things we have to get done and there’s it’s retail so we have to make sure that products are moving, and we’re hitting your goals.
James: Yes, that is awesome about that. Not to say that there are. Yeah, pre-COVID there were bowls of bricks in every meeting room, and, you know, that annoying to some sound of rattling bricks will do it now just because I have to make music to my ears.
07:40:41 Adam: Yes, so I mean that that is a fully acceptable sound in the media room.
07:40:46 James: Obviously, within reason, you know, the build experience, you know, is core to what we do. You know, there are everyone has sets on their desk. You know, I’ve got a Lego built iPhone stand, made of 1234567 bricks right. And it’s not, you know, wildly creative but it it it points to that to the you know the value of the brand.
Adam: Yeah, and how we’re all behind it. That’s, that’s, that is very interesting to me like that you are using the bricks in your own life and figuring out other things that you could do in like creating a utility for something that’s considered a toy valuable to it but it’s still it’s a plaything more than the tool.
07:41:36 James: Absolutely.
07:41:38 Adam: Well, this has been, this has been awesome Greg I’m glad we were able to get this, make this happen. I know we went back and forth a little bit.
07:41:45 James: We did certainly yeah holiday period was an interesting one. Certainly this year, how was your holiday. This year, more than ever, yeah. They all thought the years, the last year and this year, it was saying this right but we won’t go there. Yeah.
07:41:59 Adam: James where can people find you online.
James: Yeah, of course, I’m at definitely follow along across Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn, @JLWGreg. Those are my primary active channels and yeah, feel free to reach out with any further questions or just follow along on what has been a wild journey. You may see a certain number of dog photos I have two dogs and a lot of baby and kid photos because I’ve got three kids.
07:42:27 Adam: But, yeah, great time. Awesome. Yeah, it’s been great connected with you. Thanks so much for joining me. I appreciate it. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
07:42:39 James: All right, that was awesome, man. Thank you so much. No worries.